IDPA Rule Chat

[Joe4d]

kdmoore said something in a different area that got me thinking, I feel this deserves it's own thread because it applies in several areas.

I offer the following:
IDPA is suppossed to be about real world defensive shootings. Misses are really really bad on the street or home. Those bullets all hit something eventually. A miss is an uncontrolled random bullet flying through the air. Our scoring should reflect this and penalize misses more than just the split second it takes to fire a make up shot. Going to all Limited Vickers scoring and awarding the 3 second procedural for extra shots would do this. It would also eliminate the hole round dumping issue.

Proposed, Appendix 4 scoring, section A deleted.
Section B (which now becomes A.)


The number of shots you can fire on any string is limited to the number specified in the course description. Any extra shots will incur a procedural penalty of three (3) seconds per string Limited Vickers scoring is used to allow multiple strings to be fired without having to score the targets after each string of fire, thus making the stage run quicker.
Basically just get rid of the language limiting limited vickers scoring to standards. and the take away your best hit.

I

[RickB]

How often are "extra" shots taken to pick up misses? I rarely take any extra shots, but it's more likely to be an "insurance" shot on a head or moving target, and usually results in one extra hit as well as an extra shot. In a self-defense situation, we should not be conditioned to shooting a specified number of rounds. That could be addressed in your scoring system by specifying varying round counts, but I like to have the flexibility to decide, on the fly, that a target "needs" an additional shot, and I think that sort of adaptation to the situation is a valuable self-defense and competition skill.
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A07876

[jane]

An interesting thought, Joe. I passed it along to our local club's MD with the suggestion that we might set up a few stages that way for our next match.

The rulebook, unfortunately, presently does say that Limited Vickers is not suited to scenario stages (page 46). If that sentence were removed, a club could opt to set up some scenarios that way.
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Jane A16849

[kdmoore]

I wouldn't go all the way to limited vickers, just penalize any extra shots taken minimally. If the "cost" was .5 second you'd never think about "making up" a -1 shot.

This effectively increases the penalty for missed shots and -3's

I agree that we don't want to condition shooters to shoot x number of rounds, but I do think it's good to make shooters think missing "costs more than just the amount of time to shoot again".

It would be nice to drop the term "round dumping" from the book and boards

[Joe4d]

I agree, on further thought the penalty should be massaged, Missing in the world is really bad and the penalty should be more severe than time for a makeup shot. On the same area as posters stated failure to neutralize is probably worse. So a miss penalty needs to fall in between a split second makeup time and a failure to neutralize.

[The Drew]

I would like to know what school you all went to that puts more focus on the conswquences of missing a target than neutralizing the threat.

If you want to build in more penalties for misses then put more NT's out there, without them, you're on a square range that is safe to miss on...

Not all situations in the "real world" would have the same risks involved if you miss, I just can't see how you can assess an added penalty for this...

It WILL drive people from the sport.

My suggestion is if you really want to go that radical, then design a competing game, and time and people will tell if you are right.
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Drew Bingaman
A23026

[RobMoore]

Not to mention that in gunfights misses happen. In fact, they happen much more often than hits according to every major study conducted. If you wanted to mimic real life, people would spray a magazine full of rounds at one target as fast as they can while backing away, not take a careful pair of shots at 3-9 targets.

You have to consider that even with extensive training, when someone is shooting at you, you will most likely shoot as fast as you can back at them, and will probably hit them (if you're lucky) half the time.

I think things are at a pretty good equilibrium right now. Some standards with limited, some quick and dirty, some "bank job" type stages with 9 bad guys. A good rounded out set of stages. That is what I have seen at the majority of matches I've been to. This keeps a realistic base, and provides for some entertainment. A little something for everyone.
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A28264

[Joe4d]

Hits on noshoots happen in gun fights, standing and shooting and getting killed instead of moving a step to the left to cover happen in gunfights, both of these are bad and are penalized in the game of IDPA. Spraying bullets that dont hit the intended target happen in gunfights. This is also bad. If you read my follow post I stated this isnt as bad as not neutralizing the threat, therefore I figure the penalty needs to fall between the split second makeup shot and a failure to neutralize.

[The Drew]

In the real world, if you shoot in self defense and miss, you hit something, That we agree on, now what that something is, isn't always "bad" It may be a no consequences thing or not, That is the role of NT's.

Maybe the NT ratio should be relaxed so that more can be put out there on any COF... I don't agree with just scoring misses as an additional penalty.
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Drew Bingaman
A23026

[Chuck]

[Mayonaise]

Keep the current system. Except increase or add additional time penalty for multiple hits on non-threats.
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Mark Mayo
A07211
SO Instructor

http://mayonaise1959.blogspot.com/

[kdmoore]